I was surfing around on Fat Wallet and came across this post in the forum:
“My gf has 80,000 in school loans (masters degree in Italian) and 12,000 in credit card debt. I just found this out today. We have been going out for around 8 months and all seemed great till now. My credit is pretty good, and I am wondering what the long term ramifications of this debt would be. Would this affect my rating if we are married? If we get divorced would the debt follow the individual? I know this sounds petty, but I am a bit blown away by this news and am really not prepared for it. I am almost done paying off my own student loan and was looking forward to putting debt behind me. ”
So, of course I have an opinion. Here’s the post that I left at FW:
“OUCH!!
I agree with some of the other posters. It doesn’t seem like a financially rational decision to rack up $80K in student loans to obtain a degree that most likely won’t get her a good paying job. If you marry her, you will be paying off her debt. Either through, you actually paying it with your income, or through the lost opportunities of what you could do with her income. That’s going to take a long time to pay off and will definitely impact your financial lifestyle.
The $12K in credit card debt is just as ugly. Most likely, she’s paying nearly as much interest on that balance as she is on her low interest student loans. Why the CC debt? Does she put a lot of emphasis on material items? Latest clothes, latest purse, latest etc etc? Based on her financial position, she doesn’t appear to be very financially mature.
My guess is that you know all this, which is why you posted the question on FW. Man, I’d have to really love someone to take on that burden. And why the heck did she wait so long to tell you about it?”
And here’s another post from the forum that I pretty much agree with:
“Unless you are lucky enough to have parents who help you out with school costs, going to a school that charges $80k for a masters in Italian is just irresponsible in my opinion. It shows that she didn’t care about the future or didn’t have the intellect to think things out. There are plenty of other ways and cheaper schools that would have allowed her to explore her interests without assuming that much debt. It sounds to me like she was counting on marrying some rich dude and just went to school to pass the time. Bad move.
Unless there is some other reason for this debt, she should have been working on paying it off already or at least not rack up $12k more in CC. My parents didn’t pay a dime for my tuition (BS and MS) thanks to grants, aid (thank you taxpayers), and scholarships, so I got through technical degrees at a prestigious public school with 0 debt, and am now nearing $100k savings. I chose not to go to expensive private schools or enter a field that would leave me struggling for cash. Now, if I ever feel like getting a masters in Italian for pleasure, I can afford to do so, but you can bet I’ll bargain hunt for a reasonably priced school.
It’s hard for anyone here to judge her without knowing her, so take everything with a grain of salt, but she’d have to be Jessica Simpson hot for someone to want to put up with that kind of decision making. (sad but true)
But if this degree somehow gets her a niche high-paying position at an Italian museum or something, then we will all be eating our words.”
What do you think? What would you do if you were this guy?
Same as you…she would have to be some kind of really special woman for me to get into that situation.
…and hopefully, not just “Jessica Simpson hot.”
That was a joke, by the way. Having heard only the specifics, I agree with the main thrust of what everyone else is saying. I do wish I knew more information about why it took $80,000 to get a Master’s in Italian, what it was she’d planned to do with it, and what the $12,000 in CC debt bought. But I feel for this guy no matter what.
If the relationship is one based on love, communication, and understanding, then it will survive even if she has a MILLION dollars in debt.
That said, if I saw the relationship going somewhere, I’d wait until after she had a good job and a complete plan for dealing with that debt before popping the question.
To me, it would just be a warning flag. Does she care about the debt? Is she driving a pink Audi while doing this? Money weakness can be unlearned, just like eating poorly can be unlearned. You just have to decide whether you have the energy and will to unlearn it. And do it before you get married, cause it won’t get easier afterwards.
My wife still has to yell at me to pick up my socks. And I tell her she knew I was a sock slob going in. =)
while I essentially agree that the original poster needs to be cautious about her spending habit, I do have a problem with dismissing the possibility that she won’t find a good paying job with that type of a master’s degree. While, on average, a person with that type of a degree might have trouble finding a job that would rival the salary of a more “lucrative” career, there is no saying what types of jobs or opportunties are out there, even for people with degrees that don’t seem particularly “promising” as far as finances go. For example, I can refer to a close friend of my college’s dean. . . he graduated first with his four year degree in philosophy, then he got a master’s degree in some other field of the liberal arts. Not only did he never have to worry about saying “would you like fries with that?” for the rest of his life, but he somehow wound up going from a purely LA background into med. school. Now, he’s one of the nation’s best cardiologists and probably makes more money than a large number of FW posters/readers (though, I readily admit, there are some very wealthy people who post/read FW). Likewise, I shocked my family with a decision to go into education. Along with their incredulous “but, you could do ANYTHING you want! Why teaching!?” I had to endure constant second guessing along the lines of “why not computer science? It pays so much better!” Well, just to inform you (and many other people out there), sometimes jobs and degrees that appear less than profitable can actually surprise you. While it’s by no means guaranteed (especially in light of the US military closing bases left and right), there is a good chance that I will wind up teaching for the Department of Defense Dependent School System. Sure, I’ll “only” be a teacher and, as everybody knows, teachers make very little money compared to people with similar levels of education. Yet, given the base salary (around $32,000 for a bare bones B.S., about $38K for my case = “Master’s +30 credit hours”) + Living Quarters Allowance (i.e., a TAX FREE housing allowance for where you live. . . which can cover up to $20k-$30k of rent/utilities depending on where you are working. . . this is all on top of my salary, and you can buy a house over 10 years with this money, deducting the mortgage’s interest, with all the same rules about selling the house/renting it out should you so desire), and the ability to contribute to the federal government’s Thrift Saving Plans (the Department of Defense matching the contributions in a manner which is BETTER than most corporations). . . not to mention the fantastic health benefits/insurance options, COLA allowances (i.e., essentially, the DoD will compensate you if the exchange rate drastically changes between the dollar and whatever the currency is where you live), access to tax free shopping and other services on base. . . etc., etc. Well, I think I have made my point. As opposed to getting a degree where common sense says I will make very little, I will probably make better money (both in the short and long term) than I would in many of the other jobs that my family insisted I would be better suited for (I almost died when they said, “but you’re so smart, why not JOB X instead of wasting your talents teaching?”). Just my very long-winded way of pointing out that this girl might, with her degree in something that “most likely won’t get her a good paying job,” wind up earning more money than all of us. However, I do understand and partially agree with your point (after all, you did say “most likely”). Still, I think it is a fallacy to condemn higher education, particular degrees, and/or career choices because of finances. I know of many people who have corporate jobs and make fantastic money, but they HATE their lives. Even if I don’t get the DoDDS job, teaching is so varied and enriching that I think my job satisfaction will prove more than ample compensation for the differences between my salary and another, more “profitable” career choice.
oh, and that should be “base starting salary” given that, as with most teaching jobs, your pay increases slightly as you work longer in light of the salary scale. Regardless, I’ll laugh my way all the way to the bank, then on the way back to the house that the government bought (while allowing me to pocket the portion of my salary that most people spend to buy their houses), and I’ll continue laughing right on into retirement and while retired when I’m able to live well off of the contributions that I made to the government’s version of a 401(k) (i.e., the TSP). This isn’t even to mention how often I’ll be able to max my yearly IRA contributions, how easily I’ll reduce my taxable income, and how frequently I’ll be able to throw excess funds (i.e., funds beyond what I’ve already put aside for saving, retirement, and normal expenses) into things like I-Bonds. . . .
Thanks for the comments CW. You’ll never here me question someone wanting to go in to education. I think we need to figure out how to get more people to go in to education! I considered it as a career while in college but ultimately changed my mind.
That being said, my opinion is that if someone wants to choose that profession, they should consider what a cost effective path would be to get their degree. As some of the other posters have pointed out, there are a ton of less expensive state schools that provide exceptional teaching degrees. The college I went to was one of the least expensive in my state, yet had a very good reputation as a place to get a great teaching degree.
Personally, I think we continue to undermine our educational system by not creating a pay structure that entices more good people in to the profession. The longer we discount our educational system, the more time places like India and China will have to dominate us in the future.
If I was ever faced with that situation – Gazing into my true loves eyes and hearing him say “I have $80,000 in student loans and $12,000 in credit card debt” my response would be “Poor baby, how do you plan on paying all that off”?
In other words it would not matter how much I loved the guy, I would not willingly sign-up to take care of someone else’s debt. Sorry, it has just taken me far too long to pay off my own and start accumulating some assets.
So if he should then present me with a pretty pretty ring, if I loved him, I would then present him with a pretty pretty pre-nup. I would then agree to a nice long engagement that lasted as long as it took him to pay off all or a good portion of that debt. If he loved me he would be willing to bust his butt with a couple of side jobs to pay off all that debt.
But then I am still single – so what do I know?
yeah, you’re right. In fact, I went to a fairly inexpensive state school too. I guess I was just feeling the need to jump on the soapbox or something. . . sorry about that. What’s scary is that I essentially agreed with everything you and the other posters said. Must’ve just been a mood or something, but such is hardly an excuse. \(;^_^)/
Could I spend $80k on an education that wouldn’t let me pay it off in a few years from the high salary? No. But that does not mean that she is a bad person or a financial liability. And I can see having high credit card debt from trying to support herself while in school. Yes, it sucks to have those debts, but that’s life. It’s way better to have someone go into debt but have the result of doing something she wants than it is to get a degree in something lucrative that the person absolutely hates. If the guy feels uncomfortable with her debt, that’s his choice. He could have a pre-nup so that he’s never liable for her student loans, or something. Besides, the relationship has only been 8 months…I would hope that a lot more thought would go into this before marriage was considered.
Wow, this is the exact situation WE were in. Our decision was not to let money run our lives. Remember, a relationship is about love, teamwork, and trying to make each other a better person. If the girl wanted to keep going further into debt regardless of what the guy wanted, then that is more than just a money issue, it is a relationship issue.
It is easy to judge over the internet. We don’t know their whole situation. $80K may be a miniscule amount when it comes to persuing your dreams. In our relationship, “Her” school loans (from a top 5 school in her field) are a majority of our debt – but it allows her to work in a field that she is passionate about. “His” credit card APRs are through the roof. BUT, we decided to work together to change our views about money.
Money is a lot easier to deal with than relationships, believe us.
Hi! Sorry, but I really had to post a long comment about this since I was disturbed by some of your comments.
First off, never judge someone for their course of study. For all you know her masters is in translation and she’s about to make $80K a year working for the UN as a translator. All you heard was her debt amount. (I knew a lady who made a killing as a freelance Japanese translator travelling in the US and Japan.)
When still in college, I was dating someone with a lot of college debt, $50K for 4 yrs at an Ivy League school, and at 23 he was going to co-sign a mortgage with his parents to help them out. (He got a job as a consultant after college.) I freaked out about his debt burden combined with my own, so I think this guy’s anxieties are justified. I think it’s pretty reasonable not to know a person’s debt burden after 8 months of dating. You aren’t in a position to know what their relationship course has taken. Admitting to another person that you have a significant amount of debt relates to intimacy and she may not have felt comfortable enough to tell him until the 8-month mark.
My recommendation to this guy is to stick with her, help her figure out a way to pay it all down, but don’t pay a dime of it himself. To gauge how serious she is about making their relatinoship work, she needs to show serious commitment to paying off her debt. Until she makes the commitment to herself and her finances, she can’t really make a commitment to him. They need to get on the same financial page as couple. I am down with that.
I’m pretty tough about this sort of thing. My current relationship has something similar going on. I need to see the boyfriend make some progress on his goals during the next year for me consider getting big-time serious with him. It isn’t about the debt or goal itself, it’s the commitment to it that speaks volumes about the longevity of a relationship.
Anyhow, thanks for letting me leave an enormously long comment. Great blog by the way. Very elegant design.